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I have Faith in my Doubts

November 21, 2013

Well I’m gonna do somethin I don’t often do in these posts, an some of you will be choking on the idea in a minute…the ol dysu

jesus-doin jointI’m gonna talk about God.

See I mean okay and already. First to those who haven’t ran away already, I know it’s hard to believe given some of the topics I’ve written about and the f-bombs and other horrid language I can occasionally use, but I am in dysfunctional in all sorts of ways my cats and kittens. And I tell ya if there’s anything I like talking more about than politics, it’s  God, meaning and purpose of life, religion etc and what have yous.

I jes don’t do a lot of it here. I have jes not much. You can see some earlier posts by clicking on some of the pics below.

I mean you probably should, but I know ya won’t, and there’s no time to get into my dysfunctional Christian (many Christians would say not Christian) beliefs. So you’ll jes have to roll with it.

But again I don’t have time ’cause I’m here to talk about faith and doubt . More specifically about a conversation I was enjoying with another WP Blogger on a post he had written about free will.

Now it jes so happens that I have been perfecting (lol) a post about jes that topic and so I went to read what he had written when notice of the post arrived in my inbox.

You Kids do what you want. No really.

You Kids do what you want. No really.

Now maybe later I will get to the whole free will post and the complexities of believing (as I do)in a Supernatural Natural Being with a  Plan set in motion at the beginning of time which also incorporates as it’s principal actors (or cogs in the great machine of his plan) units with free will. It boggles my ever loving mind but I love thinking about it…

But I gotta focus or I will never get to the faith vs. doubt issue ’cause this one really (in a fun and intellectual way)gets under my craw.

So here it is I wanna give you the opportunity to read his original post and our replies back and forth. I will give you the opportunity but again I don’t think you’ll avail yerself of it.

Ya should be okay to get a general idea of the whole shebang and the (I believe valid) point I was trying to make.

Understand before you do continue that I think he might have blocked me from replying anymore. I hope it’s due to my long replies and not the subject matter (though I know many bloggers just want people to like their posts or fawn over their wisdom which is not the ol’ Units way). I only comment the way I wish others would comment on mine…(is that too obvious n pathetic)

Annnyway! Here is my reply to his reply to my reply.

Oh and obviously I’ve added the pictures jes for the post here.

Cody,
Thank you for you thoughtful reply. I will try to be a tad more succinct than my earlier ramble.
First let me say that if I hear you correctly you have complete faith that you’re going to heaven, simply questions (doubts) about the process.
Hopefully I’ve gotten that right.
Now as to faith vs doubt, light vs dark etc 🙂
While I believe your argument is sound from philosophical view. That I can understand the concept of light without knowing the concept of darkness. I believe in practical application I can only truly understand light, if I have known darkness.
bright-light
Can I begin to comprehend lights importance to my life, it’s warmth, glory and all that it brings if I have not experienced it’s absence?

As to faith with out doubt, I find one of your comments particularly applicable. You state “If I have faith I am going to Heaven, then I am not doubting I am going to Heaven.” (isn’t possible to have both?)

This tells me two things (or I’m ass u me ing 🙂 two things.

1: When you say you have faith you are going to Heaven, you mean to say you are “100 % sure” you are going to Heaven.
2: This Surety leaves no doubts about your afterlife.

But surety is not faith. They are polar opposites. (as compared to doubt and faith which are related opposites)

I either am sure something is true, I know it to be true, or I believe it to be true, have faith that it is true.

Once I know something to be true I no longer have need of faith.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERAI ask, if I have assumed the above correctly and the faith you have is so strong you have no doubts whatsoever about your place in Heaven (and I have known many Christians who profess the same so I am not judging your belief and acknowledge that I may indeed be wrong) I must as always respectfully disagree.

I believe that no Christian should feel 100 % assured of their spot in Heaven…(that becomes a different discussion on sin we can satan1save for later).

Now I must admit that this might  just be a personal problem.

I, for my part at least (and granted not only did I spend much of my youth celebrating and promoting sin, but that stain and those years have left me a little…more colorful than many Christians I know) am fearful and respectful of God’s wrath and am concerned about my afterlife. Yes I have been baptized confirmed, baptized a second time, (and then a third when I wouldn’t stop misbehaving in my 20’s lol).

Now of course I’m older and make better choices, but I still live with that/those demon(s) in my head.

Will I get into Heaven. I have faith that I will, but I do not know.

I personally don’t even know there’s a heaven, but I believe in one, do have faith in an afterlife.

Jesus As MeThis is when I guess that I must bother many other Christians.  They will begin to discuss with me the countless thousand ways I can be more sure. Most of them revolve around my music and movie choices…now of course they don’t read this blog.

As far as I can tell from all I could understand it boils down to having faith in Jesus as the Son(representative), and what God see when he looks into my heart on judgement day. The rest is kind of a mish mash of guidelines more than absolutes.

You may see this different than I do, many Christians do.

I did once and spent a lot of time trying to dissect this passage or that law to determine what it means to walk in faith. It was driving me crazy….lol crazier

I felt, for me anyway I had to let go and trust that God knows his stuff. Things I’m never going to be able to puzzle out I don’t need too (though I still do fer fun).

And that was okay. OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

I was okay.

Having faith wanting to do good, to be open and receptive to the Holy Spirit inside me(us). To allow God to use that spirit to fufill his plan using me. That’s all I had to do.

That doesn’t mean I never have doubts. It means that despite my doubts I have faith in His plan.

I pray daily that I am or becoming a good actor in that plan but also am comfortable in the knowledge that  His Will is in action and until I get to Heaven I cannot “know” anything.

Jeez I’m so sorry I haven’t even gotten to free will and this has turned into a usual seemingly unending ramble. I hope you will be open to further discussions but either way…
These are the kind’a opinions I’m booted from Bible studies for so I thank you for the opportunity to discuss this/these issues in such an in depth, fun and open way. OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

God Bless ya

Dysu

10 Responses to “I have Faith in my Doubts”

  1. codyalanreel Says:

    I just want to say that I did not block you from commenting lol if I did, it was an accident but I don’t remember doing that on purpose. Just saying lol


    • Cody,
      Lol yes it might be likely that I misoperated things from my end, but also would not be the first time I was blocked. I hope no hard feelings I really have enjoyed the conversation and was hoping you’s get a chance to read this and respond.
      This issue is one of those that have really driven my life, and even expressing the idea that doubt is okay has gotten me in hot water om more than one occasion.
      Anyway again, thanks fer stopping by, I wasn’t mad, hoping that I hadn’t p-d off yet another WP author whom I liked so yea glad ya touched base and again thanks
      Tom

  2. codyalanreel Says:

    I would agree with you that if you have known the darkness, you do understand the light a lot more.

    I am confused as to why you suggest a difference between “surety” and “faith.” Isn’t faith a sure thing? If you are suggesting that faith is like a hope, and is uncertain, then I would say that there is a difference between faith and surety. But if it involves faith, one might argue that objectively it isn’t sure, but what is faith if not a sense of assuredness? What are you having faith in if you are not sure of your faith?

    I would agree with you that once you know something, you don’t really need faith. But what is faith if it is not tied to some type of knowledge some way? I don’t need faith to know that an apple falls from a tree because of gravity. But if I have faith in something, I have to think that some knowledgeable thing exists, even if I don’t know what it is. There is a sense of surety in that something must exist for me to believe in. Perhaps that is a little bit too disconnected from the conversation, but I do not think so.

    How can you have faith that you will get into Heaven, but not know? That sounds more like hope that faith, honestly. Faith is “I know this to be true,” or “I believe this to be true.” Hope is “I’m not sure, but I want it to be true.” Faith is an assuredness that IS “surety”. I think that we are describing knowledge in two different terms. If you have faith in something, that means that you believe it to be true. If it can be true, there is a knowledge that can be obtained about it. If you are not sure if it exists or not, then you do not have “faith” that it exists, even if you have “hope” that it exists.


    • I see the issue. The great thing bout English is the nuance.

      It is a disagreement over which definitive focus we apply to the word “faith”

      Faith n.noun
      1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
      2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

      Now that’s the actual definition. By number 4 w’re getting closer to what you suggest.

      4.The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God’s will.

      But still we see the word believe instead if secure “knowledge”

      Faith is more than hope but yet less than knowing.

      Lemme say that one again, cause I like the sound of it.

      Faith is more than hope but yet less than knowing.

      Faith is when the holy spirit fills me and i am positive (like you seem to be suggesting you are at all times) that all that I believe is true.
      Doubt the weakness that sweeps over me laughing at my foolishness for believing such unverifiable ideas.

      Please don’t think I’m suggesting that you don’t feel that way. I
      like I said I have met a lot Christians who claim to never have doubts And I have no idea whats in anothers heart. If that’s the case it must be a very nice feeling( I don’t have much faith in that but we will set it aside for a later discussion).
      The part that irks me is that the suggestion or implication seems to be that those of us who struggle with doubts are somehow not fully committed, or in some other way “lesser” believers and I think many Christians separate would be converts with this attitude that you cannot have doubts
      To doubt is to be human. And it is wonderful if you are so filled with the Holy Spirit that you never have any doubts about God or your eventual place in His Kingdom.
      But I was not designed that way, I claim to be noting more than a Dysfunctional Unit tryin to figure it all out.
      Thanks again Cody, responding like this really helps me clarify in my own mind jes what this madness that I’m trying to get out of my head really means.
      Feel free to respond in your own time if you’d like. Please understand that I never mean insult though I can seem like it sometime. I think I am being funny. but have been told it doesn’t always communicate well 🙂
      Anyway again and as always thanks I would look forward to reading what you have to say about…wait for it…

      Faith more than Hope less than Knowing

      May be my new catch phrase lol

      • codyalanreel Says:

        Well I would agree that we all have doubts. I’m not saying that I don’t have my doubts about certain topics, and I’ve had plenty of religious doubts, as I’m sure we’ve all had. I’m kind of pointing out that the opposite of a doubt is faith. Logically speaking, not just within religious definitions. If I doubt something is true, then I don’t have any faith that it IS true. That was kind of the point of the faith discussion. Just establishing logical definitions about words. I’m not suggesting that I am better than you or anything of the sort: I’m just looking for logical definitions. And just because I have faith in something does not mean that I do not doubt other things. In fact, I may have faith in something one day and doubt the next. We kind of do that from time to time lol I may have faith that ultimately, I go to Heaven, even if on any particular day, I doubt. I’m not suggesting that somehow my one day of doubt trumps any overall faith that I have, but I’m merely just discussing differences in language. I’m not really trying to push any self-righteous agenda here or anything of the sort, but I’m just seeking truth and understanding as I believe I can get there and I start off with logic and reasoning, and I began with the logic and reasoning of certain words that we use on a regular basis. That was my only intent lol and I’m glad that you got something good from my piece 🙂 if you would be so kind as to suggest me to other people, I would consider us even lol 🙂


  3. No Cody no worries I never got that you personally were proposing yer christian superiority lol and I’m sorry looking back I can see how you may have read that from my response and I apologize.
    And I do understand and appreciate that you are quite open and honest about your beliefs.
    I also understand we are discussing an infentesmimal nuance in language but this is what I always find so fascinating.
    We both start from what seem like disparate ends and find that we are truly in agreement at the end. it is just how we arrive there that is different.
    I ended up with strong faith because of my doubts. because i doubt all and have to pick it apart till it makes sense.My Mom always said they didn’t name me Thomas for nothing.
    But the most blessed thing happened. At the end of all that doubt and taking apart and digging I arrived at the only logical conclusion. God does indeed exists. And I am absolutely sure of that (roughly 97% of the time). I have always had faith, but have also done alot of bad and denied God and mmm I don’t know bad…but I always knew right from wrong and knew I was doing wrong and had faith even if I denied it (like most “agnostics”)eventually tried to do good, to make my outside, match my inside. and so on average days I feel about 65% maybe 70% confident I’m gonna get into heaven oh it is to laugh,
    I don’t mean that literally. I guess the real thing is that to me Heaven is no longer necessarily my main goal, serving God in whatever dysfunctional way I can should be my first goal. I try not to focus on the Super Bowl but keep my mind on today’s game 🙂

    I’m pretty sure God did not just set this whole thing in motion to see how pure we can behave just so we can prove to him that we’re worthy so then we can rejoin him in heaven (??) That’n jes dont make no sense to me.
    I don’t know I might be wrong, I mean that sincerely I really have no idea.
    This is just what the voice in my head tells me to say 🙂

    As to the suggestion issue gladly and hopefully they will find yer posts as insightful and thought provoking as I did.


  4. I really like what you said about the difference between knowledge and faith; when you know something for certain, it ceases to require faith. I just want faith. I feel like the father in the Bible who, right after Jesus had heed his son, said, “I believe, forgive me of my unbelief!”


    • Dear Ms How’s Yer,
      Thank you so much fer stoppin by and commenting on my crazy blog 🙂 After reading your beautiful, well written often tender posts, I feel I should warn you ahead of time lol regarding some of my other posts…oh it is to laugh.
      I look forward to reading more of yer blog (though I tend to get these uncomfortable things called feelings when I do)Anyway and as always God Bless to you n yers.
      Dysu


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